OK, I need to write this because it's on my heart. 2 blogs in one day - you guys are lucky!
I recently read an excellent article in the 'Christianity' magazine called 'Outdated'. It was an article that looked at some of the Christian dating books available on the market, and looked at how effective they are. It was an absolutely outstanding article. But it got me all firey and passionate and I need to air some thoughts. Please don't take offence at what I say (especially the men). Also when I refer to 'the church' I am referring to the church in general, not one particular church and not WCC cos I love that church!
I completely agree that many churches views on dating is 'outdated'. I also feel that many Christians are under so much pressure to marry, and to do it young that it has become dangerous. Let me expand.
Outdated
Don't have sex before marriage.
Don't lie down with a person you are dating.
Dating a non-Christian is wrong.
You should only go out with someone you intend to marry.
These are all phrases I have heard either in church or in Christian books on dating. Whilst I can see the reasoning behind this, and whilst I agree to an extent in part, (sex before marriage can cause a whole host of issues and this guidance is intended for our own good, not as a joy-killer for example) in reality more needs to be said than this. In reality the young people and twenty somethings in our churches are often out there doing this. How much grace is in the church to deal with these things? 'How well is the church supporting couples ... as we work through this?' (Christianity Magazine). How can we avoid the condemning 'don't do this' comments and instead support and love these people in their choices and decisions?
Ok to bring matters a bit more closer to home as I often like to do (as you probably know)... I am 28 and single. I am fed up of waiting. I have had failed relationships. I have seen most of my Christian friends getting married and not having failed relationships. It gets frustrating. I feel I have 'missed the boat'. I want to remain pure, but it's difficult. Whilst most of my younger Christian friends have been sharing intimate moments with their spouses for years, I have to wait! I have desires too! With the hugely higher ratio of Christian women:Chrisian men (1:7 is it?) is it unsurprising that I am dating non-christians? I don't particularly want to, but my desire to be loved and to love, and for intimacy, marriage, sharing my life with a life-long companion and to have a family kinda outweighs the 'oh, he's not a christian'. "So what" I often hear myself say. Plus what about the fact that marriage was so different in Biblical times? Times have changed. Unfortunately my Dad is not going to marry me off to someone he has chosen for me based on finances, status, wealth, race, creed, and so on at 14 years of age! Whilst we have 'The Marriage Course' for married couples to give guidance, advice, tips and support for their marriage (which I wholly support and value), where is is the 'singles' course? And by that I do not mean some seedy, cattle market type pick and choose your future spouse gathering. I hate that. These are REAL issues that churches REALLY need to be dealing with.
Now, whilst I say I am single, I am actually currently dating a
non-christian. I am yet to commit to anything because I am unsure
myself - partly due to pressure, partly just because I am unsure what I
want, and am prefering to remain single at the moment and also partly because I just don't know if dating someone who ultimately does not share my passion and my faith would work. He knows this
and is extremely supportive. However in many ways, this man is more
than I can ask for. He is kind, caring, supportive, understanding, does
not pressure me, completely respects my 'no sex before marriage'
stance, treats me like a princess, comes to church with me, listens to
me, calls me, has been to visit 4 times from up north, treats me, takes
me out, pays for me... he has a good job, is able to fix my car if it
needs something minor doing to it, cooks, cleans, looks after himself,
has a high standard of personal hygiene, we get on well, we laugh, we cry, we enjoy eachother's company, we totally love beingin each other's company.... But wait. I'm supposed to
turn this down because he isn't a full believer, despite having
experienced God and having some sort of faith in God, even though it
might not be fully developed yet? Is this for real? Am I turning down the best things that could happen? Help me out here!
Christian Men
Ok next up, firstly I want to say that men, I love you as brothers in Christ, and I mean no offence here whatsoever. I am just airing some thoughts. I love men. They are wonderful. I love their outlook on life, their kindness, their support, their love, their physical features, their strength, their practical nature, their ability to work with technology better than I can, their aptness to deal with certain aspects of DIY that I cant, their 'knight in shining armour' God-given qualities.... In fact I celebrate everything God did when He created men and everything that goes with that. God really did do a good job. I'm not being stereotypical or sexist whatsoever. I believe men and women were created with different abilities and giftings which I think was done to compliment eachother, so I want to celebrate this. It's attractive. It's what I want.
However, I just don't fancy Christian men. I'm sorry I said that. But it's out there. Someone had to say it. Now when I speak here, I am talking very generally, and perhaps I just haven't met the right one. There are huge exceptions to the rules and again I don't mean to offend. But Christian men generally fall into 3 categories
1) Married
2) Engaged
3) A reincarnation of Jesus himself complete with socks and sandals, unkept facial hair, no idea about today's moden fashion and completely clueless in the whole area of dating.
Ok so point 3 is completely harsh and exagerated. But you get what I mean. Men. For God's sake (and women's) please, MAN-UP! As a woman I believe and celebrate the fact that I was designed to be wooed, having flowers bought for me is not soppy - I LOVE IT! Having a man make a decision shows initiative and demonstrates reliability, stability and someone I could depend upon. Those of you who date on the Internet (and yes, I include Christians here), please don't ask my name first off, and then ask if I'm horny or what my underwear sizes are as question number 2. (Too far, or just speaking the truth!?). I want a man who is able to control himself, and help me control myself also, not pull me down on the first opportunity he gets! It's a huge turn off. I love a man who is himself and who has character. Far too often I fear that men are trying so hard to be Jesus, that they forget to be THEMSELVES - the person God created them to be. We are not called to be Jesus, but to be like Jesus. My final rant here is this. If my sink is totally splurting water everywhere and needs fixing, unless there is a woman who can do it, (and I am all for women doing traditionally male dominated jobs), then I want a MAN who can come and fix it. Similarly if my lightbulb needs changing, or my car tyres need pumping up I also would like a man's touch to help me out. In addition, if I am upset and crying, I want a man to take me in his arms and cuddle me, not run a mile and go pale in the face through fear. I love men being manly. I'm sure if I had to I could fix a sink, and I already know how to change a lightbulb and regularly pump my car tyres up. I have been crying for 28 years and can cope. I am not reverting to pre 1960 gender roles. I am just saying that I love men having the ability to be manly; something I fear that the modern male Christian isn't.
Marriage and Breakups
I am no authority on this. I have never been married, and my breakups have always been horrendous. But they were made easier by the help of my amazing church family, who walked with me, loved me, understood and cared for me. Often there is a lot of pressure to get married because, yes, it is good. And yes, those saving sex for marriage often do want to marry sooner rather than later. Fair enough. However I do think that today's Christians often rush into it far too soon without giving it enough thought or enough time to develop naturally and wholesomely. What is the church doing to assist this? Many of my Christian friends who married young are experiencing a whole wealth of financial difficulties, health problems, arguments, disagreements, family problems, and so on which could have been avoided if they had just waited that bit longer until things were a bit more stable. Yes marriage is good, but it can also be very dangerous. Churches, we need to care for our engaged couples and ensure they are fully ready or as ready as can be). Marriage is fast becoming a 'fashion' rather than a life-long commitment ('what table decoration are you having, what colour are your bridesmaids, veil or no veil). Often I think couples are also getting married because there seems to be a fear of 'breaking-up'. Breaking up hurts. It is horrific. But rather break up than marry someone you just can't cope with in 3 years time when reality hits. People, we need to advise on breaking-up. We need to support those who do. We need to tell people if we think they are not right together. And we need teaching on how to date in a Godly but realistic way which is more than just a list of do's and don'ts.
So these are some thoughts. I'm not saying I'm right. I mean no offence. I am just sharing some things. I hope you enjoy and any feedback is always welcome.
'God, I'm not asking for a man who is a Christian, I'm asking for a Christian who is a man',
Amen
*Braces herself for the onslaught*.
XXX
Thanks for being so honest about these issues! I thought it might be helpful to add my perspective. I'm 33 and have been married for a year. I started going out with my now-husband when I was almost 31, and I was single for most of my 20s. I am a bit nervous about posting because I don't want to come across as a Smug Married, but thought it might be helpful to hear from someone who looked like they'd missed the marital boat!
ReplyDeleteI think dating in your late 20s and early 30s is very different to dating as a teenager – and most of the books seem to be written for teenagers and with the assumption that you will be married by the age of 22! We received great advice from our church leaders – not just on going out but also on how to date long-distance which was our situation. Relationships with older and wiser Christians are invaluable as we seek to serve the King in every aspect of our lives.
I can identify with some of your earlier blogs: the lonely Sunday afternoons, sitting on my own at a table at a wedding, wondering what to do for my holidays etc. Being single isn’t easy.
I tried to be pro-active in my search for a husband and so went on Christian holidays, Christian dating websites and tried to meet Christian men in different circles. To be honest though none of these things worked for me - although they have for others.
I consistently and persistently prayed having been inspired by Jesus’ story of the Persistent Widow, and now I pray every day for a husband for one of my closest friends.
My husband was helped by reading ‘How to Get a Date Worth Keeping’, and also by some good friends who gave him excellent advice on how to find a girlfriend. And God answered our prayers. We met (or re-met), dated, got engaged and got married. God gave me the gift of a godly husband - who incidentally is good at DIY! God answered my prayers in a way I couldn't imagine.
In terms of purity, I found it easier being self-controlled knowing that we were intentionally dating and thinking about marriage. I appreciated my husband’s protective stance e.g. we never stayed overnight alone in the same place. We were grateful for our church leaders for allowing me to cat-sit so that we could both be in the same town for a week, and for my generous parents-in-law who first let me stay when I was visiting, and then my husband when he moved out of what is now our flat for four months. Many were surprised that we didn’t choose the logistically-easier option of living together before we were married! Choosing sexual purity was difficult at times but it was well worth it. The Bible doesn’t talk about dating but it does tell us how we should treat one another as brothers and sisters in Christ. I’m so thankful that my husband treated me with honour and respect. But sexual purity isn’t easy to pursue. It’s not fashionable and self-control is difficult, but for the sake of a healthy, long-term relationship, I believe that it is paramount.
We found some good books on getting engaged, including the chapter at the end of The Marriage Book. The advice about dating for all four seasons is good. Although don’t expect a ring on Day 366! :-)
I think we need to look at what family and community means. We need each other! Single people and married people. As a married woman, I still need friends! As a married couple, we still need support! And a community of God’s people should be a place where people are valued and loved regardless of their marital status, and supported on whatever journey they are on be it being single, dating, engaged, getting over a break up, settling into marriage, adjusting to children, going through a divorce, suffering the bereavement of a spouse etc. Let’s be honest about our struggles and let’s all seek to encourage one another. Let’s be accountable to each other. Let's keep talking and having these conversations. Let’s not be afraid to ask how things are going, and to develop relationships of trust where we can share openly about how life is. We all need people to journey with!
I'm a 26-year-old single Christian man. I've been single for about 15 months, and that's mostly been through choice (and a really bad habit of dismissing potential relationships before they start). My last serious relationship ended in an incredibly messy breakup that I've only recently come to terms with, and as a result I'm cautious about who I'll start a relationship with. I don't want another breakup like that, but the one thing I'd hate even more would be to be trapped in a marriage that I rushed into. I've seen many Christians get married young and divorced by 40 - look on the bright side, if we don't get hitched before we're 30, wait a few years for the divorcees, amirite? I think there's a lot to be said for marrying later - as the Christianity article said, it's easy to feel like your first love is 'the real thing' because you've never experienced anything else.
ReplyDeleteI really struggle with your definition of 'single'. It sounds like you've got something incredible going on with this guy; especially given that he's so respectful of your views and supportive of your decisions. I don't think there's anything wrong with Christians dating, even marrying, people who don't share their faith; I question the wisdom of the decision, for exactly the reasons that you're conscious of, but I strongly believe that love is love - it comes from God and is for him! All of those things are awesome; but I equate 'single' with 'unattached', even if not 'available' or 'looking'. If I was a Christian man considering whether to court your affection (why, yes, my world has just turned all steampunk...), I'd consider that a fairly serious barrier. I'd feel like it'd be tantamount to infidelity to even ask you out on a date - how much more pressure could the start of a relationship take? When things got hard, would you ever ask if you'd have been happier with someone that you gave up in order to 'do the right thing?'. How would he feel? Could I do that to another man - I've been cheated on and it hurts! Hardly things I'd want in the back of my mind over a first date. If you want to pursue your current relationship; do. If you want to save yourself for a Christian who is a man; do - no-one likes to feel that they were second best.
I completely agree about online dating - anyone who starts a conversation with 'You're hot! X' gets ignored, people who actually respond to stuff on my profile get responses. I'm not hard to find on okcupid :p I'm not sure how to respond to what you want in a man - I kinda know what you're saying, but at the same time, it feels like a lot of pressure! I can virtually imagine you turning up to a date with a checklist and a bag containing a number of DIY tests to assess their suitability. Some men are all the things that you want from the very start; others are a bit more reserved and need to feel that they're in a safe space for their strength. IM me if you'd like to me to expand on that! I've referred the love languages stuff before - while it's important for someone wooing you to understand the significance of things to you, it's important for you to see the importance of the things that they do as an expression of themselves.
What I really take away from your post is a desire for less "dos-and-don'ts" about dating and relationships, and more guidance and advice. I rebelled against what I was told in church because I felt the arguments were weak - as I've spent time understanding God more, I've actually ended up coming to the same practical conclusions as the sermons I hated but in a much more reasoned way. I may well not have sex again until I'm married, not because I think it's inherently wrong, but because I'm really not sure it's a good idea. And so on!
Really interesting stuff :) Thanks for sharing so intimately, once again! xxx
thanks, Caroline, refreshingly open and honest. Of course you know what the bible says about marrying non Christians; but if you ignore God's advice in one area, then eventually it becomes the norm. I believe it's better to be single than marry the wrong person...no matter how long you have to wait.
ReplyDeleteHere's another thought...why are Christians dating? If God's got a perfect plan for your life, then that includes a partner too. I prayed for my future wife everyday, and then God started telling me things about her, very specific things. And at the age of 45 I'm still waiting...but I trust God's timing. It saddens me that Christians go through unnecessary pain, when it's not God's plan for us to be heartbroken. Since I know you personally, I also know that you're very spiritually hearing, and even if you met a Christian guy, he'd still have to be quite spiritual to keep up with you!
So here's to faith! And hope...and love :) xx
hey - thanks so much for these comments!
ReplyDeleteRebecca - I love your angle - it's really nice hearing from a married person on the issue - and you have some pearls of wisdom.
Rob - I really hoped you'd respond with your perspective - and yes a lot of what you say is good and correct. At the moment I'm dating this guy, and whilst I'm not committing yet, I am also not dating other people, so will just take this slowly and see what happens. I am not committed, engaged or married however, which is where my 'single' statement came from but I totally agree with your points. I am hoping that this guy will meet Jesus and become Christian, so taking it slowly and seeing what happens. If not, I may reconsider, but he is making great progress at the moment. We shall see.
I also love your comment about me having a checklist. In part I do. I guess partly I am not at a stage to compromise the list yet, but also I have had to raise my standards due to being so poorly treated in the past, and through healing and learning that I can and should raise the bar. Whilst I now know I deserve the best, I also know that my list could be a bit OTT - I am still working on a balance and would hate to go into a relationship with a tick list and write people off who didn't tick all of the boxes! Definitely not my intention. I really like your guy perspective also - and was hoping you would add this.
Tushar - brilliant stuff - thanks for this and you are very right in part.
Love the feedback guys!
xxx
This is what I was really looking for. Thanks very much. Keep up this good work.
ReplyDeleteChristian singles dating